James Baldwin, The Art of Fiction No. 78 Interviewed by Jordan by Jordan Elgrably Share on print PRINT |Share on twitter TW IT TE R |Share on facebook FACEBOOK F ACEBOOK |!"# S$A"%N& S#"'%(#S MORE |View a manuscript page
James Baldwin, ca. )*++. hoto-raph b (arl 'an 'echten
This inter/iew was cond0cted in the two places dearest to James Baldwin1s str0--le as a writer. 2e met first in aris, where he spent the the first nine ears of a b0r-eonin- career career and wrote his first two no/els, Go Tell It on the Mountain and Mountain andGiovanni’s Giovanni’s Room, Room, alon with his best3known collection collection of essas, Notes essas, Notes of a Native Son. Son. %t was in aris, he sas, that he was first able to come to -rips with his e4plosi/e relationship with himself and America. !0r second talks were held at Baldwin1s Baldwin1s poutres poutres3and3stone 3and3stone /illa in St. a0l de 'ence, where he has made his home for the past past ten ears. 2e l0nched on an A0-0st weekend, to-ether with seasonal -0ests and his secretar. secretar. Sat0rda, a storm ra-ed amid intolerable heat and h0midit, ca0sin- Baldwin1s minor case of arthritis to pain his writin- hand 5left6 and wrist. #rratic #rratic power shorta-es ca0sed b the storm interr0pted interr0pted the tape machine b o0r side. 0rin- the blacko0ts we wo0ld disc0ss s0bects at random or wait in silence while sippin- o0r drinks. "et0rnin- S0nda at Baldwin1s in/itation, the s0n was shinin- and we were able to l0nch o0tdoors at a picnic table, shaded b a bower that opened onto propert dotted with fr0it trees and a spectac0lar /iew of the editerranean littoral. Baldwin1s mood had
bri-htened considerabl since since the pre/io0s da, and we entered the office and st0d he refers to as his 9tort0re chamber.: Baldwin writes in lon-hand 59o0 achie/e shorter declarati/e sentences:6 on the standard le-al pad, altho0-h a lar-e, old Adler electric sits on one end of his desk;a rectan-0lar oak plank with rattan chairs on either side. %t is piled with writin- 0tensils and drafts of se/eral works3in3pro-ress< a no/el, a pla, a scenario, essas on the Atlanta child m0rders, these last compiled in The Evidene of Things Not Seen. Seen . $is most recent work incl0des The !evil "inds #or$, #or$ , an attack on racial bias and fear in the film ind0str, and a no/el, Just no/el, Just %bove My &ead , which draws on his e4periences as a ci/il3 ri-hts acti/ist in the )*=>s.
%NT#"'%#2#" 2o0ld o0 tell 0s how o0 came to lea/e the States? JA#S BA@2%N % was broke. % -ot to aris with fort dollars in m pocket, b0t % had to -et o0t of New ork. refle4es were tormented b the pli-ht of other people. "eadin"eadin- had taken me awa for lon- periods at a time, et % still had to deal with the streets and the a0thorities and the cold. % knew what it meant to be white and % knew what it meant to be a ni--er, and % knew what was -oin- to happen to me. l0ck was r0nnin- o0t. % was -oin- to -o to ail, % was -oin- to kill somebod or be killed. best friend had committed s0icide two ears earlier, 0mpin- off the &eor-e 2ashin-ton Brid-e. 2hen % arri/ed in aris in )*8 % didn1t know a word of French. % didn1t know know anone and % didn1t want to know anone. @ater, when %1d enco0ntered other Americans, % be-an to a/oid them beca0se the had more mone than % did and % didn1t want to feel like a freeloader. The fort dollars % came with, % recall, lasted me two or three das. Borrowinmone whene/er % co0ld;often at the last min0te;% mo/ed from one hotel to another, not knowin- what was -oin- to happen to me. Then % -ot sick. To m s0rprise % wasn1t thrown o0t of the hotel. This (orsican famil, for reasons %1ll ne/er 0nderstand, took care of me. An old, old lad, a -reat old matriarch, n0rsed me back to health after three monthsC she 0sed old folk remedies. And she had to climb fi/e fli-hts of stairs e/er mornin- to make s0re % was kept ali/e. % went thro0-h this period where % was /er m0ch alone, and wanted to be. % wasn1t part of an comm0nit 0ntil % later became the An-r o0n- an in New ork. %NT#"'%#2#" 2h did o0 choose France?
BA@2%N %t wasn1t so m0ch a matter of choosin- France;it was a matter of -ettin- o0t of America. % didn1t know what was -oin- to happen to me in France b0t % knew w hat was -oin- to happen to me in New ork. %f % had staed there, % wo0ld ha/e -one 0nder, like m friend on the &eor-e 2ashin-ton Brid-e. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 sa the cit beat him to death. o0 mean that metaphoricall. BA@2%N Not so metaphoricall. @ookin- for a place to li/e. @ookin- for a ob. o0 be-in to do0bt o0r 0d-ment, o0 be-in to do0bt e/erthin-. o0 become imprecise. And that1s when o01re be-innin- to -o 0nder. o01/e been beaten, and it1s been deliberate. The whole societ has decided to make o0 nothing. And the don1t e/en know the1re doin- it. %NT#"'%#2#" $as writin- been a tpe of sal/ation? BA@2%N %1m not so s0reD %1m not s0re %1/e escaped anthin-. !ne still li/es with it, in man was. %t1s happenin- all aro0nd 0s, e/er da. %t1s not happenin- to me in the same wa, beca0se %1m James BaldwinC %1m not ridin- the s0bwas and %1m not lookin- for a place to li/e. B0t it1s still happenin-. So sal/ation is a diffic0lt word to 0se in s0ch a conte4t. %1/e been compelled in some was b describin- m circ0mstances to learn to li/e with them. %t1s not the same thin- as acceptin- them. %NT#"'%#2#" 2as there an instant o0 knew o0 were -oin- to write, to be a writer rather than anthin- else? BA@2%N es. The death of m father. Entil m father died % tho0-ht % co0ld do somethin- else. % had wanted to be a m0sician, tho0-ht of bein- a painter, tho0-ht of bein- an actor. This was all before % was nineteen. &i/en the conditions in this co0ntr to be a black writer was impossible. 2hen % was o0n-, people tho0-ht o0 were not so m0ch wicked as sick, the -a/e 0p on o0. father didn1t think it was possible;he tho0-ht %1d -et killed, -et m0rdered. $e said % was contestin- the white man1s definitions, which was 0ite ri-ht. B0t % had also learned from m father what he tho0-ht of the white man1s definitions. $e
was a pio0s, /er reli-io0s and in some was a /er bea0tif0l man, and in some was a terrible man. $e died when his last child was born and % realiGed % had to make a 0mp; a leap. %1d been a preacher for three ears, from a-e fo0rteen to se/enteen. Those were three ears which probabl t0rned me to writin-. %NT#"'%#2#" 2ere the sermons o0 deli/ered from the p0lpit /er caref0ll prepared, or were the absol0tel off the top of o0r head? BA@2%N % wo0ld impro/ise from the te4ts, like a aGG m0sician impro/ises from a theme. % ne/er wrote a sermon;% st0died the te4ts. %1/e ne/er written a speech. % can1t read a speech. %t1s kind of -i/e3and3take. o0 ha/e to sense the people o01re talkin- to. o0 ha/e to respond to what the hear. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 ha/e a reader in o0r mind when o0 write? BA@2%N No, o0 can1t ha/e that. %NT#"'%#2#" So it1s 0ite 0nlike preachin-? BA@2%N #ntirel. The two roles are completel 0nattached. 2hen o0 are standin- in the p0lpit, o0 m0st so0nd as tho0-h o0 know what o01re talkin- abo0t. 2hen o01re writin-, o01re trin- to find o0t somethin- which o0 don1t know. The whole lan-0a-e of writinfor me is findin- o0t what o0 don1t want to know, what o0 don1t want to find o0t. B0t somethin- forces o0 to anwa. %NT#"'%#2#" %s that one of the reasons o0 decided to be a writer;to find o0t abo0t o0rself? BA@2%N %1m not s0re % decided. %t was that or nothin-, since in m own mind % was t he father of m famil. That1s not 0ite the wa they saw it, b0t still % was the oldest brother, and %
took it /er serio0sl, % had to set an e4ample. % co0ldn1t allow anthin- to happen to me beca0se what then wo0ld happen to them? % co0ld ha/e become a 0nkie. !n the roads % tra/eled and the streets % ran, anthin- co0ld ha/e happened to a bo like me;in New ork. Sleepin- on rooftops and in the s0bwas. Entil this da %1m terrified of the p0blic toilet. %n an case . . . m father died, and % sat down and fi-0red o0t what % had to do. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hen did o0 find time to write? BA@2%N % was /er o0n- then. % co0ld write and hold a few obs. % was for a time a waiter . . . like &eor-e !rwell in !own and 'ut in (aris and )ondon. % co0ldn1t do it now. % worked on the @ower #ast Side and in what we now call Soho. %NT#"'%#2#" 2as there anone to -0ide o0? BA@2%N % remember standin- on a street corner with the black painter Bea0ford elane down in the 'illa-e, waitin- for the li-ht to chan-e, and he pointed down and said, 9@ook.: % looked and all % saw was water. And he said, 9@ook a-ain,: which % did, and % saw oil on the water and the cit reflected in the p0ddle. %t was a -reat re/elation to me. % can1t e4plain it. $e ta0-ht me how to see, and how to tr0st what % saw. ainters ha/e often ta0-ht writers how to see. And once o01/e had that e4perience, o0 see differentl. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 think painters wo0ld help a fled-lin- writer more than another writer mi-ht? id o0 read a -reat deal? BA@2%N % read e/erthin-. % read m wa o0t of the two libraries in $arlem b the time % was thirteen. !ne does learn a -reat deal abo0t writin- this wa. First of all, o0 learn how little o0 know. %t is tr0e that the more one learns the less one knows. %1m still learninhow to write. % don1t know what techni0e is. All % know is that o0 ha/e to make the reader see it . This % learned from ostoe/sk, from BalGac. %1m s0re that m life in France wo0ld ha/e been /er different had % not met BalGac. #/en tho0-h % hadn1t e4perienced it et, % 0nderstood somethin- abo0t the concier-e, all the French instit0tions and personalities. The wa that co0ntr and its societ works. $ow to find m wa aro0nd in it, not -et lost in it, and not feel reected b it. The French -a/e me
what % co0ld not -et in America, which was a sense of 9%f % can do it, % ma do it.: % won1t -eneraliGe, b0t in the ears % -rew 0p in the E.S., % co0ld not do that. %1d alread been defined. %NT#"'%#2#" id what o0 wanted to write abo0t come easil to o0 from the start? BA@2%N % had to be released from a terrible shness;an ill0sion that % co0ld hide anthin- from anbod. %NT#"'%#2#" % wo0ld think that anone who co0ld time after time, and witho0t notes, address a con-re-ation wo0ld ne/er be sh a-ain. BA@2%N % was scared then and %1m scared now. (omm0nication is a two3wa street, reall, it1s a matter of listenin- to one another. 0rin- the ci/il3ri-hts mo/ement % was in the back of a ch0rch in Tallahassee and the pastor, who reco-niGed me, called m name and asked me to sa a few words. % was thirt3fo0r and had left the p0lpit se/enteen ears before. The moment in which % had to stand 0p and walk down the aisle and stand in that p0lpit was the stran-est moment in m life 0p to that time. % mana-ed to -et thro0-h it and when % walked down from the p0lpit and back 0p the aisle, a little old black lad in the con-re-ation said to a friend of hers, 9$e1s little, b0t he1s lo0dD: %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat was the process whereb o0 were able to write? BA@2%N % had to -o thro0-h a time of isolation in order to come to terms with who and what % was, as distin-0ished from all the thin-s %1d been told % was. "i-ht aro0nd )*+> % remember feelin- that %1d come thro0-h something, shed a din- skin and was naked a-ain. % wasn1t, perhaps, b0t % certainl felt more at ease with mself. And then % was able to write. Thro0-ho0t )*8 and )** % 0st tore 0p paper. %NT#"'%#2#" Those ears were diffic0lt, and et o0 recei/ed fo0r writin- -rants between )*+ and )*+=. $ow m0ch enco0ra-ement did the afford o0?
BA@2%N 2ell, the first one was the most important in terms of morale;the Sa4ton Fellowship in )*+. % was twent3one. % was la0nched into the p0blishin- world, so to speak. And there was the no/el, which became Go Tell It on the Mountain se/eral ears later. %NT#"'%#2#" The Sa4ton was intended to help o0 finish the no/el o0 were workin- on? BA@2%N %t helped me finish the no/el, it kept me alive. The no/el didn1t work, b0t % started doin book re/iews for the New )eader at ten and twent dollars a shot. % had to read e/erthin- and had to write all the time, and that1s a -reat apprenticeship. The people % worked with were left3of3center Trotskites, Socialist Trotskites. % was a o0n- Socialist. That was a /er nice atmosphere for meC in a sense it sa/ed me from despair. B0t most of the books % re/iewed were Be Hind to Ni--ers, Be Hind to Jews, while America was -ointhro0-h one of its liberal con/0lsions. eople s0ddenl disco/ered the had a Jewish problem, with books like Gentleman’s %greement* Earth and &igh &eaven, or the disco/ered the had ni--ers, with books like +ingsblood Royal and ,uality. Tho0sands of s0ch tracts were p0blished d0rin- those ears and it seems to me % had to read e/er sin-le one of themC the color of m skin made me an e4pert. And so, when % -ot to aris, % had to dischar-e all that, which was reall the reason for m essa, 9#/erbod1s rotest No/el.: % was con/inced then;and % still am;that those sort of books do nothin- b0t bolster 0p an ima-e. All of this had 0ite a bit to do with the direction % took as a writer, beca0se it seemed to me that if % took the role of a /ictim then % was simpl reass0rin- the defenders of the stat0s 0oC as lon- as % was a /ictim the co0ld pit me and add a few more pennies to m home3relief check. Nothin- wo0ld chan-e in that wa, % felt, and that essa was a be-innin- of m findin- a new /ocab0lar and another point of /iew. %NT#"'%#2#" %f o0 felt that it was a white man1s world, what made o0 think that there was an point in writin-? And wh is writin- a white man1s world? BA@2%N Beca0se the own the b0siness. 2ell, in retrospect, what it came down to was that % wo0ld not allow mself to be defined b other people, white or black. %t was beneath me to blame anbod for what happened to me. 2hat happened to me wasmy responsibilit. % didn1t want an pit. 9@ea/e me alone, %1ll fi-0re it o0t.: % was /er wo0nded and % was /er dan-ero0s beca0se o0 become what o0 hate. %t1s what happened to m father and
% didn1t want it to happen to me. $is hatred was s0ppressed and t0rned a-ainst himself. $e co0ldn1t let it o0t;he co0ld onl let it o0t in the ho0se with ra-e, and % fo0nd it happenin- to mself as well. And after m best friend 0mped off the brid-e, % knew that % was ne4t. So;aris. 2ith fort dollars and a one3wa ticket. %NT#"'%#2#" !nce in aris, o0 spent a lot of time 0pstairs at the (afI de Flore. %s that where Go Tell It on the Mountain and Giovanni’s Room were written? BA@2%N A lot of Go Tell It on the Mountain had to be written there, between there and the $otel 'erne0il, where % staed for a lot of the time % was in aris. After ten ears of carrinthat book aro0nd, % finall finished it in SwitGerland in three months. % remember plain- Bessie Smith all the time while % was in the mo0ntains, and plain- her till % fell asleep. The book was /er hard to write beca0se % was too o0n- when % started, se/enteenC it was reall abo0t me and m father. There were thin-s % co0ldn1t deal with technicall at first. ost of all, % co0ldn1t deal with me. This is where readin- $enr James helped me, with his whole idea abo0t the center of conscio0sness and 0sin- a sin-le intelli-ence to tell the stor. $e -a/e me the idea to make the no/el happen on John1s birthda. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 a-ree with Alberto ora/ia, who said that one o0-ht onl to write in the first person, beca0se the third proects a bo0r-eois point of /iew? BA@2%N % don1t know abo0t that. The first person is the most terrifin- /iew of all. % tend to be in accord with James, who hated the first3person perspecti/e, which the reader has no reason to tr0st;wh sho0ld o0 need this I ? $ow is this person real b dint of that bar blarin- across the pa-e? %NT#"'%#2#" 2hen did o0 first concei/e of lea/in- black characters o0t of Giovanni’s Room? BA@2%N % s0ppose the onl honest answer to that is that Giovanni’s Room came o0t of somethin% had to face. % don1t 0ite know when it came, tho0-h it broke off from what later t0rned into %nother -ountry. &io/anni was at a part and on his wa to the -0illotine. $e took all the li-ht in the book, and then the book stopped and nobod in the book wo0ld speak
to me. % tho0-ht % wo0ld seal &io/anni off into a short stor, b0t it t0rned into Giovanni’s Room. % certainl co0ld not possibl ha/e;not at that point in m life; handled the other -reat wei-ht, the 9Ne-ro problem.: The se40al3moral li-ht was a hard thin- to deal with. % co0ld not handle both propositions in the same book. There was no room for it. % mi-ht do it differentl toda, b0t then, to ha/e a black presence in the book at that moment, and in aris, wo0ld ha/e been 0ite beond m powers. %NT#"'%#2#" 2as it a/id who first appeared in Giovanni’s Room? BA@2%N %t was, es, b0t that no/el has a c0rio0s histor. % wrote fo0r no/els before % p0blished one, before %1d e/en left America. % don1t know what happened to them. 2hen % came o/er the were in a d0ffel ba-, which % lost, and that1s that. B0t the -enesis of Giovanni’s Room is in America. a/id is the first person % tho0-ht of, b0t that1s d0e to a pec0liar case in/ol/in- a bo named @0cien (arr, who m0rdered somebod. $e was known to some of the people % knew;% didn1t know him personall. B0t % was fascinated b the trial, which also in/ol/ed a wealth plabo and his wife in hi-h3le/el societ. From this fascination came the first /ersion of Giovanni’s Room, somethin- called Ignorant %rmies, a no/el % ne/er finished. The bones of Giovanni’s Room and %nother -ountry were in that. %NT#"'%#2#" 2asn1t it after o0r first two no/els, which were in man was e4tremel personal, that o0 introd0ced more of the political and sociolo-ical co0nterpoint 5e/ident in o0r essas6 into %nother -ountry? BA@2%N From m point of /iew it does not 0ite work that wa, makin- attempts to be merel personal or to brin- in a lar-er scope. No one knows how he writes his book. Go Tell It on the Mountain was abo0t m relationship to m father and to the ch0rch, which is the same thin- reall. %t was an attempt to e4orcise somethin-, to find o0t w hat happened to m father, what happened to all of 0s, what had happened to me;to John;and how we were to mo/e from one place to another. !f co0rse it seems rather personal, b0t the book is not about John, the book is notabout me. %NT#"'%#2#" 9!ne writes o0t of one thin- onl;one1s own e4perience,: o01/e said. BA@2%N
es, and et one1s own e4perience is not necessaril one1s twent3fo0r3ho0r realit. #/erthin- happens to o0, which is what 2hitman means when he sas in his poem 9$eroes,: 9% am the man, % s0ffered, % was there.: %t depends on what o0 mean b e4perience. %NT#"'%#2#" Ne/ertheless, it seems that o0r str0--les with social in0stices were kept apart as the material for o0r essas, while o0r fiction dealt predominantl with o0r own past. BA@2%N %f % wanted to s0r/i/e as a writer % wo0ld e/ent0all ha/e had to write a book like %nother -ountry. !n the other hand, short stories like 9Sonn1s Bl0es: or 9re/io0s (ondition,: which appeared before %nother -ountry, were hi-hl personal and et went f0rther than the immediate dilemmas of the o0n- writer str0--lin- in the 'illa-e or of Sonn in 9Sonn1s Bl0es.: %NT#"'%#2#" "alph #llison said in his (aris Review inter/iew that he writes 9 primarily not concerned with in0stice, b0t with art,: whereas one mi-ht almost find o0 a sort of spokesman for blacks. BA@2%N % don1t consider mself a spokesman;% ha/e alwas tho0-ht it wo0ld be rather pres0mpt0o0s. %NT#"'%#2#" Altho0-h o0 are aware of the fact that man people read and are mo/ed b o0r essas, as well as o0r speeches and lect0res . . . BA@2%N @et1s -o back now. Those essas reall date from the time % was in m earl twenties, and were written for the New )eader and The Nation all those ears a-o. The were an attempt to -et me beond the chaos % mentioned earlier. % li/ed in aris lon- eno0-h to finish m first no/el, which was /er important for me 5or % wo0ldn1t be here at all6. 2hat held me in aris later;from 1++ to 1+7;was the fact that % was -oin- thro0-h a kind of break0p in m pri/ate life, et % knew % had to -o back to America. And % went. !nce % was in the ci/il3ri-hts milie0, once %1d met artin @0ther Hin- Jr. and alcolm and ed-ar #/ers and all those other people, the role % had to pla was confirmed. % didn1t think of mself as a p0blic speaker, or as a spokesman, b0t % knew % co0ld -et a
stor past the editor1s desk. And once o0 realiGe that o0 can do somethin-, it wo0ld be diffic0lt to li/e with o0rself if o0 didn1t do it. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hen o0 were m0ch o0n-er, what distinctions did o0 make between art and protest? BA@2%N % tho0-ht of them both as literat0re and still do. % don1t see the contradiction which some people point o0t as inherent, tho0-h % can sense what "alph, amon- others, means b that. The onl wa % co0ld pla it, once indeed % fo0nd mself on that road, was to ass0me that if % had the talent, and m talent was important, it wo0ld simpl ha/e to s0r/i/e whate/er life bro0-ht. % co0ldn1t sit somewhere honin- m talent to a f ine ed-e after % had been to all those places in the So0th and seen those bos and -irls, men and women, black and white, lon-in- for chan-e. %t was impossible for me to drop them a /isit and then lea/e. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 were in 0tter despair after the death of artin @0ther Hin- Jr. id o0 find it diffic0lt to write then, or do o0 work better o0t of an-0ish? BA@2%N No one works better o0t of an-0ish at allC that1s an incredible literar conceit. % didn1t think % co0ld write at all. % didn1t see an point to it. % was h0rt . . . % can1t e/en talk abo0t it. % didn1t know how to contin0e, didn1t see m wa clear. %NT#"'%#2#" $ow did o0 e/ent0all find o0r wa o0t of the pain? BA@2%N % think reall thro0-h m brother, a/id. % was workin- on No Name in the Street b0t hadn1t to0ched it after the assassination. $e called me and % told him 9% 0st can1t finish this book. % don1t know what to do with it.: And he came across the ocean. % was here in St. a0l, li/in- in @e $amea0 across the road. % was sick, went to fo0r or fi/e hospitals. % was /er l0ck, beca0se % co0ld1/e -one mad. o0 see, % had left America after the f0neral and -one to %stanb0l. 2orked;or tried to;there. &ot sick in %stanb0l, went to @ondon, -ot sick in @ondon, and % wanted to die. (ollapsed. % was shipped down here, o0t of the American $ospital in aris. %1d been in the re-ion in )**, b0t % had ne/er dreamt of comin- to li/e in St. a0l. !nce % was here, % staed. % didn1t reall ha/e anplace else to -o. 2ell, % co0ld ha/e -one back to America, and % did, to do a Rap on Rae, which
helped me si-nificantl. B0t principall, a/id came and he read No Name in the Street and sent it on to New ork. %NT#"'%#2#" %n an Es.uire essa, o0 once wrote that o01/e been 9schooled in ad/ersit and skilled in compromise.: oes that perhaps reflect trin- to -et o0r work p0blished? BA@2%N No, tho0-h it has been s0ch a storm career. %t1s a terrible wa to make a li/in-. % find writin- -ets harder as time -oes on. %1m speakin- of the workin- process, which demands a certain amo0nt of ener- and co0ra-e 5tho0-h % dislike 0sin- the word6, and a certain amo0nt of recklessness. % don1t know, % do0bt whether anone;mself at least;knows how to tal$ abo0t writin-. erhaps %1m afraid to. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 see it as conception, -estation, acco0chement? BA@2%N % don1t think abo0t it that wa, no. The whole process of conception;one talks abo0t it after the fact, if one disc0sses it at all. B0t o0 reall don1t 0nderstand it. After the fact % ma disc0ss a work, et %1m 0ncertain that what % do sa abo0t it afterwards can be taken as -ospel. %NT#"'%#2#" !ne critic s0--ested that James Baldwin1s best work was et to come and wo0ld be an a0tobio-raphical no/el, which Just %bove My &ead was in part. BA@2%N $e ma ha/e a point there. % hope, certainl, that m best work is before me. %t depends on what one means b 9a0tobio-raphical.: % certainl ha/e not told m stor et, % know that, tho0-h %1/e re/ealed fra-ments. %NT#"'%#2#" Are o0, or do o0 remain, /er close to o0r characters? BA@2%N
% don1t know if % feel close to them, now. After a time o0 find, howe/er, that o0r characters are lost to o0, makin- it 0ite impossible for o0 to 0d-e them. 2hen o01/e finished a no/el it means, 9The train stops here, o0 ha/e to -et of f here.: o0 ne/er -et the book o0 wanted, o0 settle for the book o0 -et. %1/e alwas felt that when a book ended there was somethin- % didn1t see, and 0s0all when % remark the disco/er it1s too late to do anthin- abo0t it. %NT#"'%#2#" This occ0rs once it has alread been p0blished? BA@2%N No, no, it happens when o0 are ri-ht here at the table. The p0blication date is somethin- else a-ain. %t1s o0t of o0r hands, then. 2hat happens here is that o0 realiGe if o0 tr to redo somethin-, o0 ma wreck e/erthin- else. B0t, if a book has bro0-ht o0 from one place to another, so that o0 see somethin- o0 didn1t see before, o01/e arri/ed at another point. This then is one1s consolation, and o0 know that o0 m0st now proceed elsewhere. %NT#"'%#2#" Are there a lot of o0r characters walkin- aro0nd here? BA@2%N No, the be-in walkin- aro0nd before o0 p0t them on paper. And after o0 p0t them on paper o0 don1t see them anmore. The ma be wanderin- aro0nd here. /ou mi-ht see them. %NT#"'%#2#" So once o01/e capt0red a character in o0r work, it is no lon-er a phantom? BA@2%N Act0all, what has happened is that the character has tranniGed o0 for howe/er lon- it took, and when the no/el is o/er he or she sas (iao, thanks a lot. (ointe finale. Before %nother -ountry, %da talked to me for ears. 2e -et on /er well now. %NT#"'%#2#" $ow soon after o0 concei/ed of "0f0s, in %nother -ountry, did o0 know he was -ointo commit s0icide, or was he modeled after o0r adolescent friend who 0mped off the &eor-e 2ashin-ton Brid-e in New ork?
BA@2%N !h, he was taken directl from that friend, et, oddl eno0-h, he was the last person to arri/e in the no/el. %1d written the book more than once and %1d felt %1d ne/er -et it ri-ht. %da was important, b0t % wasn1t s0re % co0ld cope with her. %da and 'i/aldo were the first people % was dealin- with, b0t % co0ldn1t find a wa to make o0 0nderstand %da. Then "0f0s came alon- and the entire action made sense. %NT#"'%#2#" And "ichard, the rather idealistic writer? BA@2%N This is all far beond m memor. 2ell, there was 'i/aldo, whose name % didn1t know for some time. $e was called aniel at first, and at one point was black. %da, on the other hand, was alwas %da. "ichard and (ass were part of the decor. From m point of /iew, there was nothin- in the least idealistic abo0t "ichard. $e was modeled on se/eral liberal American careerists from then and now. %n an case, in order to make the reader see %da, % had to -i/e her a brother, who t0rned o0t to be "0f0s. %t1s fascinatin- from the point of /iew of stles, and of accomodations to h0man pain, that it took me so lon-; from )*= to )*=>;to accept the fact that m friend was dead. From the moment "0f0s was -one, % knew that if o0 knew what had happened to %da, o01d e0all 0nderstand "0f0s, and o01d see wh %da thro0-ho0t the book was so diffic0lt with 'i/aldo and e/erbod else;with herself abo/e all, beca0se she wasn1t -oin- to be able to li/e with the pain. The principal action in the book, for me, is the o0rne of %da and 'i/aldo toward some kind of coherence. %NT#"'%#2#" %s there a bi- shiftin- of -ears between writin- fiction and writin- nonfiction? BA@2%N Shiftin- -ears, o0 ask. #/er form is diffic0lt, no one is easier than another. The all kick o0r ass. None of it comes eas. %NT#"'%#2#" $ow man pa-es do o0 write in a da? BA@2%N % write at ni-ht. After the da is o/er, and s0pper is o/er, % be-in, and work 0ntil abo0t three or fo0r a.m.
%NT#"'%#2#" That1s 0ite rare, isn1t it, beca0se most people write when the1re fresh, in the mornin-. BA@2%N % start workin- when e/erone has -one to bed. %1/e had to do that e/er since % was o0n;% had to wait 0ntil the kids were asleep. And then % was workin- at /ario0s obs d0rinthe da. %1/e alwas had to write at ni-ht. B0t now that %1m established % do it beca0se %1m alone at ni-ht. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hen do o0 know somethin- is the wa o0 want it? BA@2%N % do a lot of rewritin-. %t1s /er painf0l. o0 know it1s finished when o0 can1t do anthin- more to it, tho0-h it1s ne/er e4actl the wa o0 want it. %n fact, the hardest thin- % e/er wrote was that s0icide scene in %nother -ountry. % alwas knew that "0f0s had to commit s0icide /er earl on, beca0se that was the ke to the book. B0t % kept p0ttin- it off. %t had to do, of co0rse, with reli/in- the s0icide of m friend who 0mped off the brid-e. Also, it was /er dan-ero0s to do from the technical point of /iew beca0se this central character dies in the first h0ndred pa-es, with a co0ple of h0ndred pa-es to -o. The point 0p to the s0icide is like a lon- prolo-0e, and it is the onl li-ht on %da. o0 ne/er -o into her mind, b0t % had to make o0 see what is happenin- to this -irl b makin- o0 feel the blow of her brother1s death;the ke to her relationship with e/erbod. She tries to make e/erbod pa for it. o0 cannot do that, life is not like that, o0 onl destro o0rself. %NT#"'%#2#" %s that the wa a book starts for o0, tho0-h? Somethin- like that? BA@2%N robabl that wa for e/erbod< somethin- that irritates o0 and won1t let o0 -o. That1s the an-0ish of it. o this book, or die. o0 ha/e to -o thro0-h that. %NT#"'%#2#" oes it p0r-e o0 in an wa? BA@2%N
%1m not so s0re abo0t that . For me it1s like a o0rne, and the onl thin- o0 know is that if when the book is o/er, o0 are prepared to contin0e;o0 ha/en1t cheated. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat wo0ld cheatin- be? BA@2%N A/oidin-. @in-. %NT#"'%#2#" So there is a comp0lsion to -et it o0t? BA@2%N !h es, to -et it o0t and -et it ri-ht. The word %1m 0sin- is comp0lsion. And it is tr0e of the essa as well. %NT#"'%#2#" B0t the essa is a little bit simpler, isn1t it, beca0se o01re an-r abo0t somethin- which o0 can p0t o0r fin-er on . . . BA@2%N An essa is not simpler, tho0-h it ma seem so. An essa is essentiall an ar-0ment. The writer1s point of /iew in an essa is alwas absol0tel clear. The writer is trin- to make the readers see somethin-, trin- to con/ince them of somethin-. %n a no/el or a pla o01re trin- to show them somethin-. The risks, in an case, are e4actl the same. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat are o0r first drafts like? BA@2%N The are o/erwritten. ost of the rewrite, then, is cleanin-. on1t describe it, show it. That1s what % tr to teach all o0n- writers;take it o0tD on1t describe a p0rple s0nset, make me see that it is p0rple. %NT#"'%#2#" As o0r e4perience abo0t writin- accr0es, what wo0ld o0 sa increases with knowled-e?
BA@2%N o0 learn how little o0 know. %t becomes m0ch more diffic0lt beca0se the hardest thinin the world is simplicit. And the most fearf0l thin-, too. %t becomes more diffic0lt beca0se o0 ha/e to strip o0rself of all o0r dis-0ises, some of which o0 didn1t know o0 had. o0 want to write a sentence as clean as a bone. That is the -oal. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 mind what people sa abo0t o0r writin-? BA@2%N Eltimatel not. % minded it when % was o0n-er. o0 care abo0t the people o0 care abo0t, what the sa. o0 care abo0t the re/iews so that somebod will read the book. So, those thin-s are important, b0t not of 0ltimate importance. %NT#"'%#2#" The attit0des o0 fo0nd in America which made o0 -o to France;are the still with 0s, are the e4actl the same? BA@2%N % alwas knew % wo0ld ha/e to come back. %f % were twent3fo0r now, % don1t know if and where % wo0ld -o. % don1t know if % wo0ld -o to France, % mi-ht -o to Africa. o0 m0st remember when % was twent3fo0r there was reall no Africa to -o to, e4cept @iberia. % tho0-ht of -oin- to %srael, b0t % ne/er did, and % was ri-ht abo0t that. Now, tho0-h, a kid now . . . well, o0 see, somethin- has happened which no one has reall noticed, b0t it1s /er important< #0rope is no lon-er a frame of reference, a standard3bearer, the classic model for literat0re and for ci/iliGation. %t1s not the meas0rin- stick. There are other standards in the world. %t1s a fascinatin- time to be li/in-. There1s a whole wide world which isn1t now as it was when % was o0n-er. 2hen % was a kid the world was white, for all intents and p0rposes, and now it is str0--lin- to remain white;a /er different thin-. %NT#"'%#2#" %t1s fre0entl been noted that o0 are a master of minor characters. $ow do o0 respond to that? BA@2%N 2ell, minor characters are the s0bte4t, ill0strations of whate/er it is o01re trin- to con/e. % was alwas str0ck b the minor characters in ostoe/sk and ickens. The
minor characters ha/e a certain freedom which the maor ones don1t. The can make comments, the can mo/e, et the ha/en1t -ot the same wei-ht, or intensit. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 mean to sa their actions are less acco0ntable? BA@2%N !h no, if o0 f0ck 0p a minor character o0 f0ck 0p a maor one. The are more a part of the decor;a kind of &reek chor0s. The carr the tension in a m0ch more e4plicit wa than the maors. %NT#"'%#2#" #4c0se me for askin-, b0t mi-ht o0r mother be standin- behind o0 while o01re writin-C is she perhaps behind man of o0r characters? BA@2%N % wo0ldn1t think so, b0t to tell o0 the tr0th, % wo0ldn1t know. %1/e -ot fi/e sisters. And in a f0nn wa, there ha/e been man women in m life, so it wo0ldn1t be m mother. %NT#"'%#2#" $a/e o0 been thro0-h analsis? BA@2%N &od no, ne/er -ot 9ad0sted.: %NT#"'%#2#" Both o0 and 2illiam Stron 5intentionall or not6 write abo0t /ictims and /ictimiGation. Stron has said he has ne/er felt like a /ictim. $a/e o0? BA@2%N 2ell, % ref0se to. erhaps the t0rnin- point in one1s life is realiGin- that to be treated like a /ictim is not necessaril to become one. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 belie/e in a comm0nit of writers? %s that of an interest to o0? BA@2%N
No. %1/e ne/er seen one in an case . . . and % don1t think an writer e/er has. %NT#"'%#2#" B0t weren1t 2illiam Stron and "ichard 2ri-ht, sa, important to o0 in form0latin o0r /iewpoints? BA@2%N "ichard was /er important to me. $e was m0ch older. $e was /er nice to me. $e helped me with m first no/el, reall. That was )*K+. % 0st knocked on his door o0t in BrooklnD % introd0ced mself, and of co0rse he1d no idea who % was. There were no essas then, no fiction;this was )*. % adored him. % lo/ed him. 2e we re /er 0nlike each other, as writers, probabl as people too. And as % -rew older, that became more and more apparent. And after that was aris. %NT#"'%#2#" And Stron? BA@2%N 2ell, as % was sain-, Bill is a friend of mine who happens to be a writer. %NT#"'%#2#" id o0 take a position on his book abo0t Nat T0rner? BA@2%N % did. position, tho0-h, is that % will not tell another writer what to write. %f o0 don1t like their alternati/e, write o0rs. % admired him for confrontin- it, and the res0lt. %t bro0-ht in the whole enormit of the iss0e of histor /ers0s fiction, fiction /ers0s histor, and which is which . . . $e writes o0t of reasons similar to mine< abo0t somethin- which h0rt him and fri-htened him. 2hen % was workin- on %nother -ountry and Bill was workin- on Nat Turner, % staed in his -0est ho0se for fi/e months. $is ho0rs and mine are /er different. % was -oin- to bed at dawn, Bill was 0st comin0p to his st0d to -o to workC his ho0rs -oin- on as mine went off. 2e saw each other at s0ppertime. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat kind of con/ersations wo0ld o0 hold? BA@2%N
2e ne/er spoke abo0t o0r work, or /er rarel. %t was a wonderf0l time in m life, b0t not at all literar. 2e san- son-s, drank a little too m0ch, and on occasion chatted with the people who were droppin- in to see 0s. 2e had a certain common inheritance in terms of the m0sic. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat sort of m0sic are o0 hearin- while in the immediate process of writin-? o o0 e4perience anthin- phsical or emotional? BA@2%N No. %1m /er cold;cold probabl isn1t the word % want< ontrolled . 2ritin- for me m0st be a /er controlled e4ercise, formed b passions and hopes. That is the onl reason o0 -et thro0-h it, otherwise o0 ma as well do somethin- else. The act of writin- itself is cold. %NT#"'%#2#" %1m -oin- to presa-e m own 0estion. ost of the no/elists %1/e spoken to claim the read e4ceedin-l fewer contemporar no/els, b0t find themsel/es drawn to plas, histor, memoirs, bio-raphies, and poetr. % belie/e this is tr0e for o0 as well. BA@2%N %n m case it is d0e to the fact that %1m alwas doin- some kind of research. And es, % read man plas and a lot of poetr as a kind of apprenticeship. o0 are fascinated, % am fascinated b a certain opti;a process of seein- thin-s. "eadin- #mil ickinson, for e4ample, and others who are 0ite far remo/ed from one1s ostensible dail concerns, or obli-ations. The are freer, for that moment, than o0 are partl beca0se the are dead. The ma also be a so0rce of stren-th. (ontemporar no/els are part of a 0ni/erse in which o0 ha/e a certain role and a certain responsibilit. And, of co0rse, an 0na/oidable c0riosit. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 read contemporar no/els o0t of a sense of responsibilit? BA@2%N %n a wa. At an rate, few no/elists interest me;which has nothin- to do with their /al0es. % find most of them too remote for me. The world of John Epdike, for instance, does not impin-e on m world. !n the other hand, the world of John (hee/er did en-a-e me. !b/io0sl, %1m not makin- a /er si-nificant 0d-ment abo0t Epdike. %t1s entirel s0becti/e, what %1m sain-. %n the main, the concerns of most white Americans 5to
0se that phrase6 are borin-, and terribl, terribl self3centered. %n the worst sense. #/erthin- is contin-ent, of co0rse, on what o0 take o0rself to be. %NT#"'%#2#" Are o0 s0--estin- the are less concerned, somehow, with social in0stice? BA@2%N No, no, o0 see, % don1t want to make that kind of dichotom. %1m not askin- that anbod -et on picket lines or take positions. That is entirel a pri/ate matter. 2hat %1m sain- has to do with the concept of the self, and the nat0re of self3ind0l-ence which seems to me to be terribl stran-lin-, and so limited it finall becomes sterile. %NT#"'%#2#" And et in o0r own writin- o0 deal with personal e4periences 0ite often. BA@2%N es, b0t;and here %1m in tro0ble with the lan-0a-e a-ain;it depends 0pon how o0 concei/e of o0rself. %t re/ol/es, s0rel, aro0nd the m0ltiplicit of o0r connections. !b/io0sl o0 can onl deal with o0r life and work from the /anta-e point of o0r self. There isn1t an other /anta-e point, there is no other point of /iew. % can1t sa abo0t an of m characters that the are 0tter fictions. % do ha/e a sense of what na--ed m attention where and whenC e/en in the dimmest sense % know how a character impin-ed on me in realit, in what we call realit, the dail world. And then, of co0rse, ima-ination has somethin- to do with it. B0t it has -ot to be tri--ered b somethin-, it cannot be tri--ered b itself. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat is it abo0t #mil ickinson that mo/es o0? BA@2%N $er 0se of lan-0a-e, certainl. $er solit0de, as well, and the stle of that solit0de. There is somethin- /er mo/in- and in the best sense f0nn. She isn1t solemn. %f o0 reall want to know somethin- abo0t solit0de, become famo0s. That is the t0rn of the screw. That solit0de is practicall ins0rmo0ntable. ears a-o % tho0-ht to be famo0s wo0ld be a kind of ten3da wonder, and then % co0ld -o ri-ht back to life as 0s0al. B0t people treat o0 differentl before o0 realiGe it. o0 see it in the wonder and the worr of o0r intimates. !n the other side of that is a -reat responsibilit. %NT#"'%#2#"
%s one1s past cl0ttered, as a celebrated writer? BA@2%N There are man witnesses to m past, people who1/e disappeared, people who are dead, whom % lo/ed. B0t % don1t feel there are an -hosts, an re-rets. % don1t feel that kind of melanchol at all. No nostal-ia. #/erthin- is alwas aro0nd and before o0. No/els that ha/en1t worked, lo/es, str0--les. And et it all -i/es o0 somethin- of immeas0rable power. %NT#"'%#2#" This brin-s 0s to o0r concern with realit as bein- histor, with seein- the present shaded b e/erthin- which occ0rred in a person1s past. James Baldwin has alwas been bo0nd b his past, and his f0t0re. At fort, o0 said o0 felt m0ch older than that. BA@2%N That is one of those thin-s a person sas at fort, at fort especiall. %t was a -reat shock to me, fort. And % did feel m0ch older than that. "espondin- to histor, % think a person is in si-ht of his or her death aro0nd the a-e of fort. o0 see it comin-. o0 are not in si-ht of o0r death at thirt, less so at twent3fi/e. o0 are str0ck b the fact of o0r mortalit, that it is 0nlikel o01ll li/e another fort ears. So time alters o0, act0all becomin- either an enem or a friend. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 seem /er tro0bled;b0t not b death? BA@2%N es, tr0e, b0t not at all b death. %1m tro0bled o/er -ettin- m work done and o/er all the thin-s %1/e not learned. %t1s 0seless to be tro0bled b death, beca0se then, of co0rse, o0 can1t li/e at all. %NT#"'%#2#" 9#ssentiall, America has not chan-ed that m0ch,: o0 told the New /or$ Times when Just %bove My &ead was bein- p0blished. $a/e you? BA@2%N %n some was %1/e chan-ed precisel beca0se America has not. %1/e been forced to chan-e in some was. % had a certain e4pectation for m co0ntr ears a-o, which % know % don1t ha/e now.
%NT#"'%#2#" es, before )*=8, o0 said, 9% lo/e America.: BA@2%N @on- before then. % still do, tho0-h that feelin- has chan-ed in the face of it. % think that it is a spirit0al disaster to pretend that one doesn’t lo/e one1s co0ntr. o0 ma disappro/e of it, o0 ma be forced to lea/e it, o0 ma li/e o0r whole life as a battle, et % don1t think o0 can escape it. There isn1t an other place to -o;o0 don1t p0ll 0p o0r roots and p0t them down someplace else. At least not in a sin-le lifetime, or, if o0 do, o01ll be aware of precisel what it means, knowin- that o0r real roots are alwas elsewhere. %f o0 tr to pretend o0 don1t see the immediate realit that formed o0 % think o01ll -o blind. %NT#"'%#2#" As a writer, are there an partic0lar battles o0 feel o01/e won? BA@2%N The battle of becomin- a writer at allD 9%1m -oin- to be a -reat writer when % -row 0p,: % 0sed to tell m mother when % was a little bo. And %1m still -oin- to be a -reat writer when % -row 0p. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat do o0 tell o0n-er writers who come to o0 with the 0s0al desperate 0estion< $ow do % become a writer? BA@2%N 2rite. Find a wa to keep ali/e and write. There is nothin- else to sa. %f o0 are -oin- to be a writer there is nothin- % can sa to stop o0C if o01re not -oin- to be a writer nothin- % can sa will help o0. 2hat o0 reall need at the be-innin- is somebod to let o0 know that the effort is real. %NT#"'%#2#" (an o0 discern talent in someone? BA@2%N Talent is insi-nificant. % know a lot of talented r0ins. Beond talent lie all the 0s0al words< discipline, lo/e, l0ck, b0t, most of all, end0rance.
%NT#"'%#2#" 2o0ld o0 s0--est that a o0n- writer from a minorit consecrate himself to that minorit, or is his first obli-ation his own self3realiGation as a writer? BA@2%N o0r self and o0r people are indistin-0ishable from each other, reall, in spite of the 0arrels o0 ma ha/e, and o0r people are all people. %NT#"'%#2#" 2asn1t Giovanni’s Room partiall an attempt to break down these di/isions, pointin- o0t that a/id co0ld be white, black, or ellow? BA@2%N (ertainl, for in terms of what happened to him, none of that mattered at all. %NT#"'%#2#" et, later on, notabl in the case of "0f0s and %nother -ountry, one1s race becomes essential to o0r stor. BA@2%N %mportant in that partic0lar no/el, es, b0t %nother -ountry is called that beca0se it is trin- to con/e the realit of that co0ntr. The stor wo0ld be different if it were in France, or e/en in #n-land. %NT#"'%#2#" 2hat is o0r present relationship with people like "alph #llison, %mam0 Baraka 5@e"oi Jones6 or #ldrid-e (lea/er? BA@2%N % ne/er had a relationship with (lea/er. % was in diffic0lties beca0se of (lea/er, which % didn1t want to talk abo0t then, and don1t wish to disc0ss now. real diffic0lt with (lea/er, sadl, was /isited on me b the kids who were followin- him, while he was callin- me a fa--ot and the rest of it. % wo0ld come to a town to speak, (le/eland, let1s sa, and he wo0ld1/e been standin- on the /er same sta-e a co0ple of das earlier. % had to tr to 0ndo the dama-e % considered he was doin-. % was handicapped with Soul on Ie, beca0se what % mi-ht ha/e said in those ears abo0t #ldrid-e wo0ld ha/e been taken as an answer to his attack on me. So % ne/er answered it, and %1m not answerin- it now.
(lea/er reminded me of an old Baptist minister % 0sed to work with when % w as in the p0lpit. % ne/er tr0sted him at all. As for Baraka, he and % ha/e had a storm time too, b0t we1re /er -ood friends now. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 read each other1s work? BA@2%N es;at least % read his. And as for "alph, % ha/en1t seen him in man ears. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 ha/en1t corresponded at all? BA@2%N No. % -ather "alph did not like what he considered % was doin- to mself on the ci/il3 ri-hts road. And so, we ha/en1t seen each other. %NT#"'%#2#" %f o0 were both to meet o/er l0nch tomorrow, what mi-ht o0 talk abo0t? BA@2%N %1d lo/e to meet him for l0nch tomorrow, and share a bottle of bo0rbon, and probabl talk abo0t the last twent ears we ha/en1t seen each other. % ha/e nothin- a-ainst him in an case. And % lo/e his -reat book. 2e disa-reed abo0t tactics, % s0ppose. B0t % had to -o thro0-h the ci/il3ri-hts mo/ement and % don1t re-ret it at all. And those people tr0sted me. There was somethin- /er bea0tif0l abo0t that period, somethin- life3-i/in- for me to be there, to march, to be a part of a sit3in, to see it thro0-h m own ees. %NT#"'%#2#" o o0 think that now blacks and whites can write abo0t each other, honestl and con/incin-l? BA@2%N es, tho0-h % ha/e no o/erwhelmin- e/idence in hand. B0t % think of the impact of spokespersons like Toni orrison and other o0n-er writers. % belie/e what one has to do as a black American is to take white histor, or histor as written b whites, and claim it all;incl0din- Shakespeare.
%NT#"'%#2#" 92hat other people write abo0t me is irrele/ant,: o0 once wrote in Essene. 2as that meant to -o 0n0alifiedC do o0 not relate to criticism in an wa? BA@2%N %t is ne/er entirel tr0e that o0 don1t -i/e a shit what others sa abo0t o0, b0t o0 m0st throw it o0t of o0r mind. % went thro0-h a /er trin- period, after all, where on one side of town % was an Encle Tom and on the other the An-r o0n- an. %t co0ld make one1s head spin, the n0mber of labels that ha/e been attached to me. And it was ine/itabl painf0l, and s0rprisin-, and indeed, bewilderin-. % do care what certain people think abo0t me. %NT#"'%#2#" B0t not literar critics? BA@2%N @iterar critics cannot be one1s concern. %deall, howe/er, what a critic can do is indicate where o01/e been e4cessi/e or 0nclear. As far as an sort of p0blic opinion is a 0estion, % wo0ld sa that one cannot possibl react to an of it. Thin-s ma be said which h0rt, and o0 don1t like it, b0t what are o0 to do? 2rite a 2hite aper, or a Black aper, defendin- o0rself? o0 can1t do that. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 ha/e often left o0r home in St. a0l, ret0rnin- to America and -oin- on the road. o o0 feel comfortable as a speaker? BA@2%N % ha/e ne/er felt comfortable as a speaker, no. %NT#"'%#2#" o0 feel more at ease behind the tpewriter? BA@2%N 2ell, certainl, altho0-h % 0sed to be a preacher, which helps on the road. %NT#"'%#2#"
(an o0 talk a little more abo0t o0r relationship to "ichard 2ri-ht, 0nder whose ae-is o0 recei/ed o0r first writin- -rant? BA@2%N As % said before, % 0st knocked on his door in New ork. % was nineteen. And he was /er nice. The onl tro0ble was % didn1t drink in those ears. $e drank bo0rbon. Now, %1m -oin- to sa/e o0 the tro0ble of askin- me abo0t writers and alcohol< % don1t know an writers who don1t drink. #/erbod %1/e been close to drinks. B0t o0 don1t drink while o01re workin-. %t1s f0nn, beca0se it is all a refle4, like li-htin- a ci-arette. o0r drink is made and then o0 -o off to another place. 2hen o0 finall -et back to the drink it1s mainl water. And the ci-arette has -one o0t. Talkin- abo0t "ichard and o0r earl hostile period, which % tho0-ht was ridic0lo0sl blown o0t of proportion, % sho0ld sa that when % tho0-ht % was dealin- with "ichard, % was in fact thinkin- of $arriet Beecher Stowe and 0nle Tom’s -abin. "ichard1s Native Son was the onl contemporar representation there was of a black person in America. !ne of the reasons % wrote what % did abo0t the book is a technical obection, which % 0phold toda. % co0ld not accept the performance of the lawer at the end of the book. % was /er e4plicit abo0t that. % think it was simpl abs0rd to talk abo0t this monster created b the American p0blic, and then e4pect the p0blic to sa/e itD Alto-ether, % fo0nd it too simpleminded. %nsofar as the American p0blic creates a monster, the are not abo0t to reco-niGe it. o0 create a monster and destro it. %t is part of the American wa of life, if o0 like. % reser/e, in an case, the 0tmost respect for "ichard, especiall in li-ht of his posth0mo0s work, which % belie/e is his -reatest no/el, )awd Today. @ook it 0p. %NT#"'%#2#" %s there an resistance toda to black writers in p0blishin- ho0ses? BA@2%N There is an enormo0s resistance, tho0-h it differs from 2ri-ht1s time. 2hen % was o0n-, the oke was 9$ow man ni--ers o0 -ot at o0r plantation?: !r, more snidel, 9$ow man ni--ers o0 -ot at o0r p0blishin- ho0se?: And some had one, most had none. That1s not tr0e now. %NT#"'%#2#" $ow does it strike o0 that in man circles James Baldwin is known as a prophetic writer? BA@2%N % don1t tr to be prophetic, as % don1t sit down to write literat0re. %t is simpl this< a writer has to take all the risks of p0ttin- down what he sees. No one can tell him abo0t that. No
one can control that realit. %t reminds me of somethin- ablo icasso was s0pposed to ha/e said to &ertr0de Stein while he was paintin- her portrait. &ertr0de said, 9% don1t look like that.: And icasso replied, 9o0 will.: And he was ri-ht.
%uthor photograph by Nany -rampton1
